I recently forwarded this article that Gandhi wrote regarding Jews, Hitler and the Middle East to my friend and it lead to some interesting debate:
Friend: Gandhi’s article is interesting to read and I guess there are no surprises in his logic. I don’t agree with his methods of non-violence. I think that they can work in some situations but not all and that there is a time when you have to fight. Non-violence would work as well with the arabs as it did with the nazis. Even though this was written before the millions of Jews were killed in Europe, I’m sure Gandhi didn’t change his mind after he learned of the holocaust. I also think that the dalhi lama is doing a crappy job of getting his country back because of his insistence on non-violence. On the other hand, the arabs could learn a thing or two from gandhi and I sincerely believe that they could accomplish a lot with non-violence against israel; much more than with their terror attacks. Do you agree with gandhi?
Me: Yes I agree with Gandhi. I think Gandhi was a genius. Even Einstein looked up to and respected Gandhi.
I agree with his methods of non-violence. I think it is an excellent strategic move. I see what he accomplished with it, and I know what the Arabs could have accomplished if they had used it - instead, they have done the opposite and the world despises them for it and they have only made their situation worse.
Also with the US - we have used violence and the world hates us. Is our situation any better? Hitler too.
Violence is dispacable. Non-violence breeds support and respect. It also solidifies a people and gives them strength.
I look at non-violence from a strategic and logical standpoint. I think it is the smartest strategic move.
And not just for a specific situation. I believe it is far superior to violence in every situation. However I think there are non-violent methods that are strategically inferior to violent methods ( e.g. surrender,cowardice). You have to choose the correct non-violent methods. I think passive non-violence like this is a worse strategic move than violence. Chamberlain demonstrated weak and passive non-violence - violence would have worked better. Gandhi demonstrated aggressive non-violence which worked great - it saved countless lives and accomplished his goal, while maintaining strength, respect, and the admiration of the world and history.
Non-violence is smart if done right. And I think this applies to every situation.
Friend: Do you really think non-violence is superior to violence in every situation? I think that if you value your life, non-violence can be a a completely naive and foolish method. If you aren’t attached to your life and you don’t mind suffering and dying, then I can see how non-violence can work in every situation, otherwise it can be the very worst thing that you can do. Gandhi didn’t mind suffering and dying, he got his kicks out of starving himself and suffering every chance he got. This is what Gandhi says in the article about the specter of Hitter’s massacre of the Jews: “For to the god fearing, death has no terror. It is a joyful sleep to be followed by a waking that would be all the more refreshing for the long sleep.” I value my life and the life of my family and people, so I would never rely completely on non-violence. Do you truly commit yourself to non-violence in all situations or do you think this is the best method in all situations? If you answer yes, do you agree that you must be unattached to your life and that the avoidance of suffering is not one of your chief concerns?
Personally, I hate to suffer and I would easily use violence to preserve mine and other’s life.
If you were attacked on the street, your life was in danger, and you had the ability to defend yourself by using violence against your attacker, what would you do? Would you not react and instead rely on god alone to protect you? Would you use non-violence and suffer death? I would use violence. Can you provide any non-violent methods that would be effective in this situation?
I agree that Gandhi was a genius, etc, and that non-violence is the most preferable and effective method in many many situations. But if you value life and wish to avoid suffering, you can’t limit yourself to non-violence. Do you disagree?
Me: I value my life. But I think that kind of ironically, non-violence is best for everyone in the long run. We each value our lives. War kills people - so if you value your life, war is a dangerous method. With non-violence there is a better chance that your life will be saved. Look at Gandhi with British rule of India. How many lives do you think were saved? How much suffering? India could have fought a war against the British and many more would have died and less would have been accomplished. Most of these people value their lives as much as you. Non-violence is a risk. You risk your life because you have faith that it is good overall ( i.e. each of our lives is less at risk). It is kind of a prisoner’s dilemma type of strategy, in my opinion.
Using violence puts you and your people at more risk - just look at the Arabs. Are they any more safe for using violence? Is the US more safe for using violence in Iraq?
We value our lives and we don’t want to suffer - this is a justification for war/violence? War/violence causes death and suffering.
You will have death and suffering either way, but I think you will have much less if you use non-violence. Plus, it is a much stronger aggressive method, I think - it accomplishes more for you and your people.
I really believe it and think it is true.
If I were attacked on the street and could use violence to save myself, I probably would. I know I would to save my family. Just because I think non-violence is the right thing to do doesn’t mean I will always do it. Often the right thing to do is the hardest thing to do. Violence is easy and natural.
Non-violence may seem naive, but it isn’t if it is done right. It is a great strategic move if done aggressively, with courage and reason.
What Gandhi accomplished was a miracle. Who would have imagined that so many poor uneducated Indians would be able to unite and overthrow British rule using non-violence? He was a great leader. He used non-violence, but he used it in a very strategic, aggressive and effective way.