Comments on: Proprietary Trader http://www.uglychart.com/2005/11/27/proprietary-trader/ Beauty is in the eye of the shareholder Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:34:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Jon http://www.uglychart.com/2005/11/27/proprietary-trader/#comment-342 Jon Tue, 29 Nov 2005 06:05:45 +0000 http://www.uglychart.com/?p=1028#comment-342 ugly, r u out of your mind? Most Prop trading shops don't let you take positions home, and if they do, it's for a day or two. So, now we'll call you a day trader. Day trading sucks..Why? In such a short time frame, the MM's are able to manipulate the stocks..there is no follow thru except on overnights, where you either needed to be clairvoyant by 4PM the day before or have insider info.(I see this more and more) If you chose to become a "day trader" get used to the following. a) Spend countless hours viewing charts and volume patterns b) One of these charts seems to be setting up for a trade c) You take a stab and set your stop limits d) The Index's do nothing all day and the MM's are able to prevent a breakout of pattern. e) End of day, hardly any action, and your forced with the "should I take this home" conundrum. f) You like the pattern so you take it home g) MM's knowing that day traders are on same side, take stock through stops next morning..get you out..and 3 days later, if weren't stopped out, it would have been a nice trade.. Get used to this happening every day..and I mean every day. What's that? You wouldn't have gotten stopped out...That's where traders get killed. Their is absolutely no correlation between a stocks activity at the end of the day and tommorrows open. Trust me, I've been doing this a long time. It's guessing. Sometimes it works, others it doesn't..50/50. I've been on the winning and losing sides of the most amazing patterns throughout the day into the close, that the MM's are able to manipulate during the next days trading. Also, get used to Shelf Registrations(good for a 20% overnight drop) (Naz adding an E to the stock..tasre and wgate; both of which were strong charts and screwed many)(Cramer effect..he equally destroys stocks as much as pumps them) Daytrading is like slowly inching your way out to test the ice on a newly frozen pond.. So, be prepared to take hits if you trade that way. If you couldn't tell, I'm looking for a way out. I know many "daytraders" and None make a decent living..NONE..One month up, the next down..it sucks..stay with what your doing..anything is better. It's all manipulated in the short term. If I stay in trading(been at it for 13 years in various forms) it's gonna be at a place where I can build positions.....best of luck to you.. ugly, r u out of your mind? Most Prop trading shops don’t let you take positions home, and if they do, it’s for a day or two. So, now we’ll call you a day trader. Day trading sucks..Why? In such a short time frame, the MM’s are able to manipulate the stocks..there is no follow thru except on overnights, where you either needed to be clairvoyant by 4PM the day before or have insider info.(I see this more and more)
If you chose to become a “day trader” get used to the following.
a) Spend countless hours viewing charts and volume patterns
b) One of these charts seems to be setting up for a trade
c) You take a stab and set your stop limits
d) The Index’s do nothing all day and the MM’s are able to prevent a breakout of pattern.
e) End of day, hardly any action, and your forced with the “should I take this home” conundrum.
f) You like the pattern so you take it home
g) MM’s knowing that day traders are on same side, take stock through stops next morning..get you out..and 3 days later, if weren’t stopped out, it would have been a nice trade..
Get used to this happening every day..and I mean every day. What’s that? You wouldn’t have gotten stopped out…That’s where traders get killed. Their is absolutely no correlation between a stocks activity at the end of the day and tommorrows open. Trust me, I’ve been doing this a long time. It’s guessing. Sometimes it works, others it doesn’t..50/50. I’ve been on the winning and losing sides of the most amazing patterns throughout the day into the close, that the MM’s are able to manipulate during the next days trading. Also, get used to Shelf Registrations(good for a 20% overnight drop) (Naz adding an E to the stock..tasre and wgate; both of which were strong charts and screwed many)(Cramer effect..he equally destroys stocks as much as pumps them)
Daytrading is like slowly inching your way out to test the ice on a newly frozen pond..
So, be prepared to take hits if you trade that way.
If you couldn’t tell, I’m looking for a way out. I know many “daytraders” and None make a decent living..NONE..One month up, the next down..it sucks..stay with what your doing..anything is better. It’s all manipulated in the short term. If I stay in trading(been at it for 13 years in various forms) it’s gonna be at a place where I can build positions…..best of luck to you..

]]> By: jon http://www.uglychart.com/2005/11/27/proprietary-trader/#comment-341 jon Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:25:31 +0000 http://www.uglychart.com/?p=1028#comment-341 here is my son's experience, when he got laid off at schwab in the bear mkt. denver had no other job opportunities! as a series 7 licensed broker, got a "postition" at a trading firm (name withheld)with none of his own capital at risk, 50-50 profit split with parent co, $10000 losses allowed before termination, can buy 100 shares of any stock but must have offsetting shorts, active trading urged, charged 2 cents a share by parent as rent for his seat at the screen. after 6 months comissions ate up all profits. none of the other traders made money either. it was a scheme for the parent firm to generate comissions because they can trade at less than 2 cents a share. happily the trading job kept his series 7 active and he got called back to schwab when the bear ended, otherwise macdonalds would have been a better job. keep your day job and save money and invest it and make money with it and get rich slow. day trading is the hardest job in the world!! here is my son’s experience, when he got laid off at schwab in the bear mkt. denver had no other job opportunities! as a series 7 licensed broker, got a “postition” at a trading firm (name withheld)with none of his own capital at risk, 50-50 profit split with parent co, $10000 losses allowed before termination, can buy 100 shares of any stock but must have offsetting shorts, active trading urged, charged 2 cents a share by parent as rent for his seat at the screen. after 6 months comissions ate up all profits. none of the other traders made money either. it was a scheme for the parent firm to generate comissions because they can trade at less than 2 cents a share. happily the trading job kept his series 7 active and he got called back to schwab when the bear ended, otherwise macdonalds would have been a better job.
keep your day job and save money and invest it and make money with it and get rich slow. day trading is the hardest job in the world!!

]]> By: Ugly http://www.uglychart.com/2005/11/27/proprietary-trader/#comment-340 Ugly Mon, 28 Nov 2005 06:16:26 +0000 http://www.uglychart.com/?p=1028#comment-340 Thanks guys, elitetrader.com is very helpful and has a lot of info that I've been reading. I'll let you know how it all turns out. Thanks guys, elitetrader.com is very helpful and has a lot of info that I’ve been reading. I’ll let you know how it all turns out.

]]> By: Todd http://www.uglychart.com/2005/11/27/proprietary-trader/#comment-339 Todd Mon, 28 Nov 2005 03:57:54 +0000 http://www.uglychart.com/?p=1028#comment-339 Ugly, Congratulations on the offer. Without more detailed information it's difficult to offer too much in the way of advice other than to say that you should follow your heart and always pay attention to your gut instinct. Leverage is a wonderful thing when the markets are going in your favor; and conversely can easily become one's quick downfall if the markets turn against you or if loss management is not strictly maintained. Always ask yourself, "what is it that this firm (or any firm like it) has to gain by offering you this position ?" It's in fully analyzing the other person's position that we learn the truth about the siutation at hand. Best wishes Ugly,
Congratulations on the offer. Without more detailed information it’s difficult to offer too much in the way of advice other than to say that you should follow your heart and always pay attention to your gut instinct.

Leverage is a wonderful thing when the markets are going in your favor; and conversely can easily become one’s quick downfall if the markets turn against you or if loss management is not strictly maintained.

Always ask yourself, “what is it that this firm (or any firm like it) has to gain by offering you this position ?”

It’s in fully analyzing the other person’s position that we learn the truth about the siutation at hand.

Best wishes

]]> By: dan http://www.uglychart.com/2005/11/27/proprietary-trader/#comment-338 dan Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:42:41 +0000 http://www.uglychart.com/?p=1028#comment-338 hey ugly, elitetrader.com has LOADS of prop. info. i think after college i may give it a shot as well. good luck if you do go! i'm sure you'll do great. even though i think they are more intraday active type traders (scalpers, daytraders). but as long as you're making money i'm sure they can't complain! cheers, dan. hey ugly,

elitetrader.com has LOADS of prop. info. i think after college i may give it a shot as well. good luck if you do go! i’m sure you’ll do great. even though i think they are more intraday active type traders (scalpers, daytraders). but as long as you’re making money i’m sure they can’t complain!

cheers,
dan.

]]> By: GerryB http://www.uglychart.com/2005/11/27/proprietary-trader/#comment-337 GerryB Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:13:39 +0000 http://www.uglychart.com/?p=1028#comment-337 What sounds like a job offer.....may in fact be a sales pitch to obtain your account. Without the details, it is impossible to say. Buyer beware. Remember the traders at the top of the Nasdaq Tech Boom were quiting there jobs to become full time traders. The market is again manic, but at a lower level. Your "offer" may be symptom of the this fact. .....and, then I could be all wrong. However, if it was "all right" in your mind, you would not have posted the question. Best, Gerryb/jer 33:3/eccl 1:9 What sounds like a job offer…..may in fact be a sales pitch to obtain your account.

Without the details, it is impossible to say.

Buyer beware. Remember the traders at the top of the Nasdaq Tech Boom were quiting there jobs to become full time traders.

The market is again manic, but at a lower level.

Your “offer” may be symptom of the this fact.

…..and, then I could be all wrong. However, if it was “all right” in your mind, you would not have posted the question.

Best, Gerryb/jer 33:3/eccl 1:9

]]> By: TraderEyal http://www.uglychart.com/2005/11/27/proprietary-trader/#comment-336 TraderEyal Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:58:21 +0000 http://www.uglychart.com/?p=1028#comment-336 I remember a few good threads on EliteTrader on this subject. In one of them a head hunter from a prop firm openly answered trader's questions. Good luck I remember a few good threads on EliteTrader on this subject. In one of them a head hunter from a prop firm openly answered trader’s questions.

Good luck

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